优酷上有个视频，估计很多人都看过
这个CCAV做的视频可信度有多少呢
请往下看
百度一网友如此回帖
我对10楼视频（就是上面的视频）中的事情进行了查证，从弗吉尼亚理工大学文献搜索引擎返回的结果中仅仅找到一篇关于Masutatsu ōyama 输给MR.CHEN的文章，该文章出处为因特网某论坛。文章中说次事出自Masutatsu ōyama 自己的回忆录，但是却没有说明是哪本，哪章，哪页，哪段。如果这事是杜撰，这篇英文文章也有可能是出自中国人之手。加上视频本身完全是无论据的叙述，我从书目学角度认为这段视频以及上述文章没有作为对中国功夫实力评估依据的价值。
以下是上述文章地址及全文
http://forum.japantoday.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=384081
It is a little known fact that the legendary Founder of Kyokushin Karate, Sosai (Grandmaster) Oyama admitted to only one single defeat in his entire life as a Karateka. The man is whom the martial arts world call the "God Hand" or the "God of Karate". He is a man who easily sliced through bottle-necks, broke rocks with his knife hand, killled bulls with a single blow, defeated hundereds of martial art masters & professional fighters, boxers, wrestlers all over Japan & the whole world. Yet in his biography this invincible Karateka revealed that he could not beat one frail old man - an old man who practices "Taijiquan", the art of the Grand Ultimates.
According to his own narration, after he defeated the formidable Muaythai figher "Black Cobra" in Thailand, he travelled to Hong Kong to meet a certain Mr Chen, a man rumoured to be a great Taiji master. He knew in his heart that Chinese Martial Science is the source of all Karate, & he regarded this trip as a return to the source, his challenge to the fountain-head. His first impression of Mr Chen was quite bad. As it turned out, Mr Chen was a frail old man who looked more suitable for an old folks home rather than teaching the famous chinese martial art there. After the usual pleasantries, Oyama asked to leave, thinking that this old man would never accept his challenge to Taiji. But to his amazement, Mr Chen took the initiative & asked Oyama to spar with him. Seeing doubt in his eyes, Mr Chen said,"Are you not here to find out what is Taiji? Here is your chance." So Oyama accepted, thinking that he could finish off this old man soon enough. But he was very wrong.
The long duel that followed was like a classic battle between the snake & the crane. Mr Chen was able to neutralize all the Karate attacks he could deliver, using smooth circular, arc-like movement & techniques. On the other hand, when Mr Chen counter-attacked, it was with a force that could not have come from a man his age. It was all Oyama could do to evade them, using linear, sometimes awkward movements. Eventually, seeing no sign of fatigue in the old man, & having exhausted all his techniques, Oyama gave up, admitting that he could not beat Mr Chen. Mr Chen laughed & thanked Oyama for giving him such a great workout, inviting him to stay for a few days to learn more. Oyama asked to be left alone for a short while to contemplate this defeat. Later, when one of Mr Chen's students came to invite him for tea, he was quite surprised to see tears rolling down Oyama's cheeks. In his own words, Oyama said,"These tears are not tears shed for losing; they are tears of appreciation. Appreciation that my Karate still has an infinite amount of space to grow. It is a space that is opened up by none other than the chinese martial art called Taiji".
After that he stayed with Mr Chen for a period, learning the principles of Taiji. Being the genius that he is, he managed to grasp them quickly, & was able to defeat Mr Chen's most senior student at the end of this period of study. From then on, after his return to Japan, Kyokushin Karate was known to reveal a certain Taiji flavour in its form & techniques. After his passing in 1994, however, these Taiji principles were lost in Kyokushin. The student who was able to learn them the most was Ashihara, one of his most gifted students. But due to some problems he left Kyokushin to form his own "Fighting Karate" in 1980. Ashihara died earlier than Oyama by 2 years. The only person left now who still uses these Taiji principles in his Karate is Ninomiya, who also left Kyokushin to form his own style, known as "Enshin Karate", the Heart of the Circle. It is better known as "Sabaki". Ninomiya learned under both Oyama & Ashihara. He is currently teaching in the United States & organises the Sabaki Challenge yearly.
Another famous Shotokan Karate master, who is also dead now, once remarked to his student that,"Taiji is a very powerful art, but it is an art for superhumans. For us ordinary humans it is better to stick to Karate."
我从大山倍达的自传中找到一段，很直观地证明了大山倍达输给陈姓老者的事实。但是从中看出的是，其中很多细节在传到中国时被戏剧性地进行了修改。
这段文章有严谨的书目学注释，如下
Article title:I'll Take a Bet On Fighting Spirit!
By Oyama Masutatsu, Sosai
Take from tape recording by T. Kume
Translated by M.Yamane & C.Wilby
(Reprinted from the Kyokushin Karate English Quarterly Magazine)
(Vol. 1 No. 4, 1978, Vol. 2 No. 1 & 2, 1979)
文章第10段如下，全段叙述了他数次失败的经历
Oyama Masutatsu, have you ever lost a fight before?Yes, I have lost many times. Just after the war, I was bashed up by a group of blacks and was even hospitalized, but man-to-man I have never lost clearly. I have only lost trying to fight against five or six people, because I am no God or Superman. One instance of "losing" even proved highly valuable for me. This was during my meeting with Mr. Ching in Hong Kong. I loved the personality of Mr. Ching, and I respected him very deeply. When I met him I was 33 years old and he was nearly 70. I am now bald, but even at that time, although he was very old, he had more hair then than I do now, and he was only around 50kg in weight. Of course I had more power and speed than he had, as I was young, but he was a magnificent man, just like an old God. My head was bowed the whole time that I was in his presence, as I couldn't look at him directly. I had lost to him without doing anything. He asked me to show him my techniques, and I showed him all that I knew. He said that it was wonderful and dynamic, but still with an edge on it. He said I was like a rough diamond and I needed polishing. I asked him to teach me but he answered that he didn't really have anything to teach me, just that I had forgotten the definition of Karate and my movements had become too straight. He said, draw a circle and have a spot on it. A straight line is plus alpha. He said that straight Karate was just gymnastics, but you only beat people when you have power, true power that comes from the point and circle. Since that time I have been teaching all my students the same thing, and this is why Kyokushin Karate is different from other Karate styles. The life of Kyokushin Karate is Kumite(fighting). The life of Kumite, fighting, is in basics. You have to practice circle training. One should never show ones back to the enemy, you must try to get him from behind. If you are to the side of your opponent you can win 60% of the time, if in front perhaps 50%, but if you can get to the back of your opponent you can win 70-80% of the time. Students must train how to come in from behind.
可以看出 ，一，大山倍达曾经被一群人打到进医院。二，大山倍达输给陈是因为陈已有70岁左右，大山整个过程中都成鞠躬状，并且不能直视陈先生。他说，I LOST WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING.（我什么也没做地输了）三，当大山倍达要求陈先生指教时，陈只是告诉了他太极拳的道理，并不是传说中的让大山倍达留下来学习了一个月。
我的结论是，陈先生却有击败大山倍达，但这不是一次正式地比武，而是一次请教性地切磋。输是大山因为尊敬老人的谦让造成的。可以说，大山在让陈先生。
由此看来，上面说的就黄淳梁完全属于杜撰了。
这翻译。。不过大家应该差不多能看懂吧。其中一句话我改下翻译，不是“但是一对一的我清楚地从未遗失”，“而是一对一我从未彻底地输过”
我总结出大概几点，
1，大山不是央河蟹视说的没输过
2，大山跟陈先生的比武不是一次真正意义上的比武，大山出于对老者的尊敬“什么都没有做”，这是一次请教。
3，大山没有留在中国1个月学习太极，只是了解了太极的大意
4，文章对陈先生的描述很细致，是一个70岁健康老人的样子，这样再说他是黄淳梁，明显是杜撰。
下面还有个YY的传言，和造神李大仙一样悬乎
大山倍达与黄淳梁
1950-1960年代的香港生活郁闷，治安恶劣。习武是当时流行的公余、课余的好活动。加上当年中国的解放，国内不小武术名家都到香港落地生根，香港当时武林确是百花齐放、百家争鸣也。
同一时间在日本，一位受到日本空手道界排斥的空手道名家大山倍达为了测试自身的力量和宣扬其提倡的实战空手道，大山于1950年开始，分别与五十二头公牛交战，结果三头当场死亡，有四十九头公牛的牛角被其以空手道手刀徒手砍掉。1952年间，大山倍达远赴美国多个地方，公开实地示范他所主张的武学。其间他将所有270个对手全部击败，大部份他都以“一击必杀”的招式取得胜利。而每一场对决都在三分钟内分出胜负。有人如此评论大山倍达的威力：「对决时，当他走近你，你就完了。没有人能抵御他的攻击。如你用手臂去抵挡他的拳，你的手臂必然折断，但如果你没有抵挡，那折断的必然是你身上的骨头或肋骨。」据说，他能以拇指及食指扭曲十元硬币，更可以用徒手手刀一连劈断十四瓶威士忌瓶颈。正因大山倍达的惊人力量和技术，自此，人们都称他为「神手:大山倍达」。可是大山倍达的不败神话被一位华夏武术家破灭了，他便是咏春拳讲手王,同时也是咏春拳学的始创人---黄淳梁师傅也!
当时大山倍达也把他的失败记录在他的自传<<空手笨蛋一代>>中，大山师傅为了避免黄淳梁师傅成为武术界的目标而受到扰乱。他把黄淳梁师傅的角色改为一位太极拳高手叫陈老人。所以当今很多人以为香港陈家太极拳击败。
由于极真会是有很名气，黄淳梁师傅为了不想令人误会他借打败大山倍达之名气以作自我宣传。所以极力避免向人提及打败大山倍达一事。
今天各人相继作古，与其任由这段历史在时间流逝中渐渐空白，不如将过程真相公予同好。
提起黄淳梁师傅，想必武术爱好者不会陌生。咏春拳讲手王黄淳梁一生中最少比武或踢馆过百次，真正是身经百战。当时香港武林盛极一时的踢馆、比武之风气，便是黄淳梁师傅带起的。黄淳梁师傅的百次战役主要是在二十岁至二十四岁之间。对手包括各门各派之最高高手。当时黄淳梁师傅的比武事迹曾详细纪录在五十年代未及六十年代初的红绿日报、晶报等报章之武林版之中。有兴趣的朋友可翻查当年旧报详阅。极真空手道始创人大山倍达当年在美国在找不到对手之下，有幸听到黄淳梁的威名，受到吸引而来香港黄淳梁找师傅来作一个见证武林历史的 “交流”。
双方坐定，先是寒暄一阵。随后大家谈到了武术。大山倍达对功夫颇不以为然。对咏春拳更是不屑一顾。黄淳梁师傅介绍，空手道其实也是中国的一武术之一，无法完美地体现东方武术的特点。随后简单介绍了咏春拳的历史和现状。听晚黄师傅一席话，让大山倍达将信将疑，他主动要求“交流一下”。于是双方来到了训练场中央。大山倍达首先表演了极真空手道的技术，这位日本空手道家拳脚犀利而且连环密不透风。接下来黄淳梁师傅演示了咏春拳的三套套路分别是:小念头、寻桥和标指，并介绍了这些套路手法的一些用法。大山倍达似乎无法理解。双方便抄起拳靶来试一下力道。
大山倍达不愧为日本空手道名家，他大喊一声，将黄淳梁师傅持握的手靶打得地动山摇。拳脚组合几乎没有什么破绽。黄淳梁师傅将略微靠近大山倍达，发现大山倍达的力道减小了不少。像这种靠惯性力击打的搏击项目，遇到贴身紧逼，威力会大大减弱。黄淳梁师傅心中有了底。等轮到黄淳梁打靶时，一连几次，大山倍达几乎接不住马师傅的发力，大山倍达的双臂被震得阵阵发麻。然后要求试手。黄淳梁师傅便与对手拉开了架势。
大山倍达的进攻快速而凶猛。他一连串正拳突击被黄淳梁师傅的咏春黐手追打、迫打，如水银泻地，大山倍达无从反击，接着大山便用出了自己横行美国的成名绝技：能够一连劈断十四瓶威士忌瓶颈手刀。但令这位极真空手道始创人大为不解的是，他面对美国选手所向披靡的手刀，在黄淳梁师傅面前根本不起作用。黄淳梁师傅一个接劲，将大山倍达的双手互缚，大山倍达根本无法破解黄淳梁师傅的缚手。双方交叉换位，黄淳梁师傅已将大山倍达的双臂互缚，一个日字冲拳打过去，大山倍达倒退几步，一屁股坐下撞坏了身后的木墙。黄师傅使用的是日字冲拳。像所有找黄淳梁师傅麻烦的人一样。大山倍达站起来再次向黄淳梁师傅猛扑过来，黄淳梁不敢怠慢，一个日字冲拳打在在对手的心，另一日字冲拳打在大山倍达的鼻子上。大山倍达再次被击倒了出去，这次鼻子血流成河。这场友谊切磋到此结束。
事后，大山倍达怎么也不明白，为什么黄淳梁师傅的攻防技术如此美妙。他拍著黄淳梁师傅的肩膀说：惊人，非常强壮（惊くべきです、非常に强い.)。黄淳梁师傅凭借纯正的咏春拳法赢得了对方的信任，从此大家成为非常好的朋友。
下面大家一起讨论研究吧 |
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发表于 2010-5-9 14:52
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